Unraveling Data Partnerships: Insights with Stephanie Gervasi of Alation

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Hi, Sandy here. Welcome to another episode of How I Met Your Data.

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This week, Anjali and I are welcoming Stephanie Gervasi.

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Stephanie is the Director of U.S. Partnerships and Alliances for Alation.

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Alation is a leading provider of data cataloging and governance solutions designed

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to empower organizations to harness the power of their data effectively.

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If you would like to think of it as a librarian for your data,

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organizing, indexing all your information in one central hub.

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This not only enhances data accessibility, but also improves data quality and

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collaboration across teams.

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What sets Alational apart, it's his ability to automate data governance and

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stewardship processes.

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It promotes data democratization, ensuring compliance and regulations and internal

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policies, and provides data consumers with self-service access to trusted information.

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So we thought it'd be great to have Stephanie on the podcast primarily because

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one of the things that I always find with data executives, when they make decisions

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in terms of purchasing software,

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they do usually one of three things or all of these three things.

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They research the software companies themselves.

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They reach out to their partners, consulting firms that they work with and ask for their opinions.

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And they work with research organizations such as Gartner or Forrester to look

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at what research those organizations have done.

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Usually what I tell our clients is to try all three and ensure you're getting

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a broad perspective of the decision making here with software companies.

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And one of the interesting facets about all this is that software companies

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and consulting firms usually have partnerships with each other.

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And there's pros and cons to this, depending on who you are and where you sit.

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As a software company, you have a stake in having a partnership with consulting

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firms because you want consulting firms to talk about your software.

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As a consulting firm, you want to have a partnership with software companies

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because you want to have access to the latest and greatest capabilities of the

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leading software providers in the market space.

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As a data leader, an executive trying to make decisions, both with consulting

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firms and software companies, it's important for you to understand these relationships,

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the pros and cons of them, and what to think about when you're first engaging

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with a consulting firm or a software company and asking them questions.

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I think that's an interesting kind of little weird thing that happens in the

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industry that no one talks about, at least not openly.

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This episode is really dedicated to that interesting relationship between software

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companies, consulting firms, and our clients.

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So we're going to dive into that. I also want to just mention that this summer

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we're going to be releasing just a couple episodes.

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We're going to sputter into the last few episodes of the season.

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Our goal originally was to have 10 episodes for the first season,

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and this is episode eight.

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Nine, if you add the special episode released a couple of weeks ago,

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but it really is episode eight. We have two more lined up.

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Those will drop sometime early August and the other mid-September.

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And the reason for that is I'm taking some time off.

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So I really want to enjoy the summer. My wife is a teacher. She has a summer off.

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So I'm taking summer break and I'm really going to be focusing on my family

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and travel and just unplugging a bit as much as possible. So with that,

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it gives you an opportunity to catch up to our podcast episodes if you haven't listened to them all.

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And Adjalee and I are just very, very thankful for you listening to us week

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after week. We really appreciate it. And a number show.

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We have over 600 downloads, tracking to 1,000 pretty fast.

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So we're super excited about that. But thank you so much for being a listener.

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So with that, our next episode with Stephanie Gervasi.

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Music.

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Knew Anjali already, but maybe we'll start there and then we can talk about how you and I met.

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Yeah. So Anjali and I knew each other from Slalom, but interestingly enough,

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we did not work there at the same time.

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So I joined Slalom in 2014.

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I had a number of other colleagues who were working in the New York office, ex-colleagues.

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And so it was kind of like, you need to come here and be part of it.

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And so I joined the New York office when it was still in its infancy, really.

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It's certainly not the slalom that it is today when we were growing.

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And it was fun. And I really spent most of my time in the data and analytics

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space, even though we were selling everything from strategy through implementations

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from a technical perspective.

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But that's where my sweet spot was and my comfort zone. And that's where most

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of my ex-customers were too. So it was just kind of easy to fall back into it.

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So then fast forward, where I spent most of my career selling services.

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I ended up here at Alation in a partner role after COVID, right?

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Coming back out of it, I had had a little part-time job when my kids were not in school.

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And an ex-colleague of mine said, hey, we have this partner role open.

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I think you might be good for it. And it was just one of those things we fell into.

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And I really had no idea what I was doing. But Anjali was at Slalom in Philadelphia at the time.

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And we just struck up a relationship and a friendship and a mutual respect for one another.

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And I think she saw the value add that Alation could bring to organizations

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from a data catalog and governance perspective.

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And we just always stayed in touch. So here we are. Funny enough,

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after like, you know, Steph and I got to know each other a little bit better,

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we actually realized we were at another company prior to our slalom days.

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Never really overlapped either, but it was like, you know, Jersey, Boston based company.

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And we're like, wait a minute, you were there too. Oh my God.

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But then even funnier is now like my husband and I are big pickleball players.

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And did not realize that the pro that taught our initial clinics is actually Steph's cousin.

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That was a fun lunch that we had where we discovered that. I think that cemented

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the relationship right there, right?

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Where we were like, well, Larry's my cousin. She was like, what?

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Oh, wow. So we sent him a selfie of us and the rest is history. Well, that's great.

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That's great. And Anjali brought you to me, to Myer World. Yeah.

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Because Cervelo is an Alation partner.

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And Anjali, when she joined us, she was like, who are your partners?

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We had a whole discussion about

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who we're trying to formalize our partnerships with and drive through.

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And Alisha was one of them. So she could not speak enough about you,

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Steph, and was super excited to reconnect.

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So speaking of partnerships, you've seen both sides of the world.

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So what role did you have at Slalom?

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What was your focus there? I was a sales executive.

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I mean, for the most part, already been an individual contributor my entire

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career, right? I mean, I started in kind of staffing, right?

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Administrative and clerical staffing after realizing advertising and sitting

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behind a desk was certainly not for me.

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And, you know, back in the day, we used to like knock on doors and get thrown out of buildings.

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I mean, it was just very different there. And I fell into technical staffing,

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like on a fluke, like somebody, I think a recruiter reached out to me and said,

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hey, there's this budding business.

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They're really focused on technical, but they're doing staff augmentation.

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It's a really hot topic at the moment. Are you interested?

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And I remember thinking, there's no way. Like technical? No,

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no. But I love the manager. She promised to teach me everything.

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And again, like everything, you learn enough to be dangerous.

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You build relationships.

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You uncover needs. And then you figure out what levers to pull to get everyone

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over the goal line. And so it grew from there.

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I moved into solutions and selling bigger things.

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And then luckily enough, I got hired into a boutique consultancy in 2005 called

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Knightsbridge Solutions.

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They were vendor agnostic, but very focused on BI and data warehousing.

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And it was a startup for all intents and purposes. I think when I joined,

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it was probably 250 or maybe 300 people.

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But we were competing with Accenture and IBM and all of the big boys.

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And it was such a specialized company, the way that they grew talent, right?

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They had a landing company called Kensington, which was their training ground.

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So they would augment their teams with people and would train them on the job.

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And then after two years, you had to be promoted up into Knightsbridge or you

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had to leave and go find another opportunity.

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So as a result, like every consultancy, it's all about your people, right?

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The slides may look different. The logos may look different.

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We're all kind of going after the same thing.

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Sometimes there's solutions that really bring, I think, you know,

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go-to-market strategies and a change or an accelerator, if you will.

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But for the most part, when you're a consultant, right, you're going after how

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to make businesses better, how to augment staff, how to identify gaps,

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right, and help their businesses grow.

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So I really fell into that and I loved it. I've been in the data space ever

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since, just trying to help customers with their problems and challenges and

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find solutions that make sense.

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So now that you've been both on the consulting side and working for a software

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vendor as head of partnerships, what would you say are the benefits of partnerships

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between software companies and consulting firms?

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I think like everything, I think about both sides of things, right?

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A partnership is a strategic relationship and you form that with another business

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or an expert who's really serving the same market as you are, right?

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So you think of it as this mutually beneficial alliance where you can feed off of each other.

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So what I like to think about it is the partners I'm working with,

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we're combining our strengths, we're trying to help each other grow,

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and we're providing mutual value to that end customer.

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So those consulting partnerships are really effective because they try to create

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leverage, right, for both organizations.

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The other way I look at it is I think partnerships, especially with our consulting

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firms, is they can bolster our reputation, right, and establish you as a trusted authority.

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So, yeah, we are responsible at Alation for creating the data catalog category,

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and we remain a leader in the space despite multiple challengers and legacy organizations.

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But we can say that. But if we have a partner come in and say,

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Alation's the leader for X, Y, and Z reasons,

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yes, but here's why they should be the leader in your category based on your

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use case, based on wanting to serve the enterprise, right? Not just a subset, et cetera.

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And it's not a software company selling their product, right?

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There's a bigger vision there.

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The third thing is acquiring new customers far outweighs the cost of retaining

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and upselling existing customer base. And as an ARR business.

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We really want to find ways not to have to replace ARR, but grow that ARR.

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Customer churn is public enemy number one. I think partners can help with that.

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Because again, our Ballywick is not necessarily the strategy or change management and adoption.

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It's the software and the value it brings to the organization.

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That's where our partners come in like you.

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Yeah. From a partner perspective, I feel that the relationships are always dependent

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on the the size of the partnership of the software company, honestly, right?

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You know, Cervelo has been around since 2009. And back then our focus was cloud.

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When cloud wasn't really at the forefront of how everybody did data.

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And now it is at the forefront.

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You're crazy to think like, I'm going to do my stuff in house,

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right? That never happens anymore.

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It has to sit somewhere and be cloud first and born in the cloud,

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et cetera, in terms of technologies that you're were using.

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So when we first started, our partnerships were with small software companies,

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because at the time, these companies were all startups.

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So we went in deep with them, we got really deep with those with those partnerships

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to the point where we were providing ideas and brokering, you know,

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change in the product itself.

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And we find that our partnerships take this maturity curve, even today,

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where as Cervelo, we're constantly looking at what's coming next,

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and who are the next big partners we need to think about that may have something

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unique and novel in the marketplace, and we need to be part of that partnership.

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But that relationship starts off really nice, hot and heavy,

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as we've seen. And then after a while, that company gets large.

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And you know, it's what have you done for me lately is conversation usually

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in terms of the relationship between the software vendor and a consulting partner.

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How do you see that in terms of ensuring there's alignment there?

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I think it becomes difficult for a software vendor to think through that in

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terms of how they're leveraging their partnerships, depending on how mature

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they are as an organization.

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Think you need to determine out of the gate with any partnership,

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you know, what's your desired business outcome, right?

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Understand the why behind wanting to create a partnership.

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Now, I found that I haven't necessarily had to go out and recruit partners to

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work with, that partners are coming to us.

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So you have to kind of weed through why are you coming to us?

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Is it because we're the leader in the space and you want to be associated with us?

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Is it because you have a thriving data an analytics practice and you get asked

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about, you know, data catalog and data governance a lot, right?

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So figuring that piece out first, then you can narrow the discussion down on

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what's the ideal customer profile, right?

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Because not every partner has the same ideal customer profile.

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And it could be industry and it could be size and it could be geography or use case, et cetera.

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The third thing is then you have to be clear on each party's roles,

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responsibilities, and what what those benefits are, and then formalize everything

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with that written agreement to make sure we're not going to dispute those things.

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But the fundamental key is to structure each partnership as a win-win engagement.

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It has to be able to play, you know, both sides of it, right?

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The incentives you create for both of us to support each other,

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then the more inclined everyone's going to feel the partnership is beneficial.

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When I think of, you know, partnership, I really think of two words,

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and that's just mutual benefit.

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Now, the pendulum might swing one way or the other, depending on kind of what

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motions are going on and what pursuits and where the deal progressions are in their evolution.

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If customers are asking us for a data governance strategy, right,

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and we need a partner for that, well, who are we going to turn to?

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Who do we know that really does that, right?

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Or, you know, they're struggling with the change management, right?

224
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Everyone puts a piece of software in, thinks it's a panacea,

225
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but we all know what goes on behind the scenes, right? The age-old conversation.

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So I think that those are kind of the fundamental things that need to be shared up front.

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And then like every partnership, right, you'll do a quarterly business review.

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You'll make sure you're tracking to those goals.

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And if you're not and things are breaking down, you have to regroup and pivot.

230
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And, you know, maybe some are going to be more successful than others.

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Yeah, absolutely. We've talked a lot about the mutual benefits of a consulting

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firm and a software vendor being partners.

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What benefits do you see for our clients?

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I mean, I know of a few from our perspective, but I'm curious from your perspective.

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So, you know, it's back to that same piece of it is, you know,

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the software is one fundamental piece.

237
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Right. But overall, you know, what are your business goals? What's your strategy?

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Where are you driving towards?

239
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Right. So we can coexist with a competitor, right, a Calibra that's very focused

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on locking data down in the in the finance space.

241
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Right. And they can push that out to the enterprise, but it's not necessarily

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an enterprise wide tool. So we would look to partners to help guide and coach

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those customers with, does this make sense?

244
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Or does it make sense to do a rip and replace?

245
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I think there's that independent lens to guiding customers.

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You can't sell them a lot of services that aren't going to benefit them and

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hope your business is going to grow.

248
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It's all based on your reputation and what you're delivering to the market.

249
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So when I think of who benefits from the customer perspective,

250
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it's that bigger piece of things.

251
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And then making sure that investment has a return on it, right?

252
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Because if it sits on a shelf or it's not adopted or, you know,

253
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nobody's using that, that's a waste of money and everybody looks bad.

254
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So I think that that's where you can help a customer really thrive in making

255
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recommendations along that line. Yeah, absolutely.

256
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From our experience, at least the experience I've had working for mostly boutique

257
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consulting firms in my career, and have worked in industry for a number of years,

258
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I do see a difference between a smaller consulting arm that may only have the

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bandwidth to have one or two very focused partnerships versus midsize boutique

260
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consultancy, like a Cervelo,

261
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for example, where we have more breadth capability, where we can look across strategically.

262
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Strategically across kind of the higher players and maybe some net new players

263
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that are coming in the marketplace and partner across a few to really be able

264
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to provide that agnostic view to our clients.

265
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Because at the end of the day, if you have a partner, a consulting firm that's

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giving you advice and they actually only have one partnership in a specific

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area, you have to question their advice a little bit versus those who may have

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multiple partnerships.

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Now, fast forward that to a massive global SI, right? Yeah.

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I also question their authority as well, because most of those organizations

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are siloed, where you might have a massive arm of experts in a specific area

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with a specific tool set, and they know that tool inside and out,

273
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and that's all they're printing.

274
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So getting advice from them is difficult sometimes across the board.

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But I do think that that's the benefit to the client is, hey,

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what partnerships do you have?

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Consulting firm X and understanding how you can leverage that information is

278
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going to be critical for them. For sure.

279
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I mean, I continue Continue to coach internally with the field staff that it's

280
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important to know the ecosystem within an account that you're having conversations with, right?

281
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It should be part of discovery to understand who are your partners that you

282
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engage with, not technology partners, but who do you rely on for strategy and

283
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guidance and forward thinking and who's doing your implementation work and your offshore work.

284
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Putting that whole puzzle together, I think, allows for greater G2,

285
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which just makes you a better person when you're coming up with a solution,

286
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right? You become more valuable.

287
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You're seen in a different light.

288
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I mean, I think about when I was working at Accenture in the workday practice,

289
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and we were doing a pitch for a very big bank in Canada, and they hadn't decided

290
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what platform they were going on.

291
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So here I am not only competing with Deloitte at the time, but we were also

292
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competing with our own Accenture, SAP, and Oracle practices because the customer

293
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still hadn't decided on a platform.

294
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So to your point of, it's easy to say no one gets fired for hiring Accenture,

295
00:18:57,037 --> 00:19:02,957
et cetera, but you have to go into it knowing kind of where their lens is coming from, right?

296
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So, and if it's really truly the ability to be agnostic and.

297
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And some of the feedback we'll get from time to time is, well,

298
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XYZ partner, they partner with everybody.

299
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And you can't necessarily ask a consulting firm whose end goal is to serve their

300
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customer to align with one specific technology when there could be use cases

301
00:19:25,559 --> 00:19:29,559
and benefits in certain circumstances to different technologies.

302
00:19:29,559 --> 00:19:31,799
And maybe it's not us that wins in the end.

303
00:19:31,939 --> 00:19:38,299
However, what I ask my partners to do is have a vision line of sight and add

304
00:19:38,299 --> 00:19:41,339
some credibility of the nuances between the competitors.

305
00:19:41,639 --> 00:19:46,799
So again, you are providing the right information to the right people at the right time.

306
00:19:46,899 --> 00:19:50,199
And if the customer decides to go in a different direction and doesn't want

307
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to take your advice, then so be it, you did your best.

308
00:19:53,259 --> 00:19:57,159
But just knowing how to put your best foot forward is an extension of what we're doing.

309
00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:01,519
And the last thing I'll say is that I don't ask partners to sell elation.

310
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I ask partners to help identify opportunities where elation may be a solution

311
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and then allowing us to come in and do what we do best.

312
00:20:12,739 --> 00:20:16,119
Yeah. I think, Steph, one of the other things that I've noticed with the partner

313
00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:20,299
ecosystem and successful relationships, it's actually two things.

314
00:20:20,519 --> 00:20:26,659
One is mindset, right? So making sure that with us and our core values,

315
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we're aligning to partners that share that same mentality, share that same expectation

316
00:20:32,459 --> 00:20:34,979
and desire for value with our clients.

317
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But we're really kind of operating in the same mode.

318
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And that was one of the things that I really loved about working with Alation

319
00:20:41,579 --> 00:20:46,579
previously and now is just the mindset's very much similar in terms of what

320
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we're trying to achieve.

321
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And then also, I think part of the secret sauce is really ensuring that.

322
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We're working and bringing, bringing together people that work well together and have fun together.

323
00:20:59,017 --> 00:21:01,997
You have to have, you have to have some fun along the way. Right.

324
00:21:02,057 --> 00:21:06,697
And to your, exactly to your point, it's still the age old people buy from people they like.

325
00:21:06,837 --> 00:21:10,417
It's just, that's how, how people roll, right?

326
00:21:10,497 --> 00:21:15,017
Is you want to be achieving something at the end and hopefully it's with people

327
00:21:15,017 --> 00:21:19,257
whose company you enjoy, especially at work, right? We spend the majority of our lives working.

328
00:21:19,457 --> 00:21:22,797
So you want to have some fun and feel like, you know, you're accomplishing something

329
00:21:22,797 --> 00:21:24,837
at the end with people who are of like-minded value.

330
00:21:25,097 --> 00:21:28,717
Yeah, that's very, very true. It's funny because sometimes our clients will

331
00:21:28,717 --> 00:21:32,977
throw names of companies out or they're like, oh, why do you only partner with

332
00:21:32,977 --> 00:21:34,137
two or three in this space?

333
00:21:34,477 --> 00:21:38,437
And I'm sitting here going, you can't be an expert in everything.

334
00:21:38,657 --> 00:21:43,317
You have to pick and choose, right? And we're doing some due diligence on our

335
00:21:43,317 --> 00:21:48,297
side and we're trying our best to be an agnostic partner, but also ensure that

336
00:21:48,297 --> 00:21:52,237
we're bringing bringing the best of breed and what our clients are asking for to the table.

337
00:21:52,357 --> 00:21:55,017
Sometimes clients point us in the right direction and say, hey,

338
00:21:55,037 --> 00:21:56,477
have you looked at platform X?

339
00:21:56,717 --> 00:22:01,037
And I'll be honest about it and be like, actually, no, we haven't. I'll take a look though.

340
00:22:01,197 --> 00:22:04,157
If it's interesting, I'll bring it to our teams and have them evaluate it.

341
00:22:04,217 --> 00:22:05,997
Absolutely. We'll be at the forefront of that.

342
00:22:06,277 --> 00:22:11,497
The landscape is changing so rapidly. You can't be all things to all people

343
00:22:11,497 --> 00:22:12,917
and you can't stay on top of it.

344
00:22:12,977 --> 00:22:16,677
And you think about like 20 years ago, how many more companies are on the planet

345
00:22:16,677 --> 00:22:21,617
it, vying for everyone else's attention in similar veins with interesting nuances

346
00:22:21,617 --> 00:22:24,077
that each brings. So it's very difficult.

347
00:22:24,761 --> 00:22:28,041
At the pace we're moving, to stay on top of everything. Yeah,

348
00:22:28,041 --> 00:22:30,881
absolutely. So we talked about all the rosy pieces.

349
00:22:31,321 --> 00:22:36,241
What challenges do you encounter in these partnerships? Obviously not with us, but with others.

350
00:22:36,481 --> 00:22:41,781
No, of course not. I think a couple things are, you know, certainly mismatched

351
00:22:41,781 --> 00:22:44,081
expectations, right, out of the gate.

352
00:22:44,201 --> 00:22:49,601
I think there are, you know, there's still the old school mentality of partners

353
00:22:49,601 --> 00:22:52,881
want leads from you and you want leads from partners, right?

354
00:22:52,881 --> 00:22:55,261
Right. And that still exists in a lot of places.

355
00:22:55,641 --> 00:22:58,781
I think sometimes, like I mentioned, the positioning piece of things.

356
00:22:58,901 --> 00:23:01,821
Right. Internally, there may be the perception that, you know,

357
00:23:01,821 --> 00:23:06,421
why would you even think about positioning a competitive product out there?

358
00:23:06,601 --> 00:23:09,761
So those are things that I have to navigate internally.

359
00:23:10,121 --> 00:23:16,341
I think sometimes navigating complex integrations, setting expectations with

360
00:23:16,341 --> 00:23:20,241
partners and customers and the ability to execute on that can be a little bit

361
00:23:20,241 --> 00:23:25,101
challenging. And then lastly, it's about identifying opportunities, right?

362
00:23:25,161 --> 00:23:31,681
I always say, please follow our process if you have a lead and something you

363
00:23:31,681 --> 00:23:36,341
want to bring us into, because inevitably, three of your competitors are likely

364
00:23:36,341 --> 00:23:39,901
in that same account and could be having those same conversations.

365
00:23:40,541 --> 00:23:44,461
And then the last thing I'll say, at least in my experience here,

366
00:23:44,501 --> 00:23:46,741
and truthfully, like I have nothing to compare it to.

367
00:23:46,801 --> 00:23:51,921
So a lot of it's been anecdotal or talking with industry peers and understanding

368
00:23:51,921 --> 00:23:56,881
kind of their nuances and how they go to market and what their partner programs look like.

369
00:23:57,001 --> 00:24:01,081
But it's really about how much you're going to get paid. Like where's the dollars

370
00:24:01,081 --> 00:24:06,001
going to come from by the work that we're doing and helping to identify these things?

371
00:24:06,001 --> 00:24:10,481
Because Alation, one of our value propositions is it's pretty easy to implement

372
00:24:10,481 --> 00:24:13,941
and get it up and running and start to get value out of the catalog, which is true.

373
00:24:14,141 --> 00:24:18,941
But that is just the standing up of this. There's so much more to the curation

374
00:24:18,941 --> 00:24:22,141
and the migrations and what data you're bringing into it.

375
00:24:22,201 --> 00:24:24,521
And again, as you're going to grow across the enterprise.

376
00:24:24,921 --> 00:24:26,981
And so I think that that opportunity...

377
00:24:27,948 --> 00:24:31,968
If it's done in the right way, can really be fruitful for those partners.

378
00:24:32,068 --> 00:24:35,508
But it's getting them to see that because that takes time as well.

379
00:24:35,768 --> 00:24:39,628
Yeah. And I think some of the points you made, the misaligned ways of working

380
00:24:39,628 --> 00:24:43,508
or outcomes that people are looking for works both ways, right?

381
00:24:43,668 --> 00:24:47,448
I would say for Cervelo, we are not the type of company that we're not going

382
00:24:47,448 --> 00:24:51,108
to go out of our way to do account alignment with partners unless it makes sense,

383
00:24:51,228 --> 00:24:55,908
unless it's the right thing for the client, unless it'll bring additional outcomes for our clients.

384
00:24:56,008 --> 00:24:59,668
Beyond that, we're not going to do it. So we've seen some challenges there for

385
00:24:59,668 --> 00:25:00,988
sure. So I agree with that.

386
00:25:01,088 --> 00:25:03,808
And I think for us, we're one of those types of consulting firms.

387
00:25:03,928 --> 00:25:08,968
What we're challenged with is getting the time and focus from our partners sometimes

388
00:25:08,968 --> 00:25:12,208
because we're not going to be that one that says, hey, I'm going to bring you

389
00:25:12,208 --> 00:25:13,748
into every door I knock into.

390
00:25:13,888 --> 00:25:16,968
So it can be a challenge because we're going to have a different perspective

391
00:25:16,968 --> 00:25:18,688
of here's our value case.

392
00:25:18,868 --> 00:25:22,068
Here's why we think you should work with us or why we think your clients should

393
00:25:22,068 --> 00:25:23,548
work with us or customers.

394
00:25:23,728 --> 00:25:28,428
And if you feel like introducing us, that's up to you. But this is a value add, right?

395
00:25:28,708 --> 00:25:31,788
Because exactly as you said, we know elation is easy to implement.

396
00:25:31,948 --> 00:25:35,688
The difficult part of it all is in the people in the process and the change

397
00:25:35,688 --> 00:25:36,708
management around that.

398
00:25:36,828 --> 00:25:40,948
And that is every organization in the world is challenged with that.

399
00:25:41,108 --> 00:25:44,308
And that's kind of the secret sauce in terms of where we come in.

400
00:25:44,408 --> 00:25:49,188
And I would agree with that. So a great product is nothing without a great strategy behind it, right?

401
00:25:49,308 --> 00:25:54,188
And I think SaaS companies know this too well. Well, it doesn't mean they execute on it, right?

402
00:25:54,348 --> 00:25:57,988
We know prospects continue to purchase things with tunnel vision,

403
00:25:58,228 --> 00:26:01,028
shiny objects. This is going to solve all my problems.

404
00:26:01,288 --> 00:26:05,868
They focus on the products, the functionality, they are caught up in features

405
00:26:05,868 --> 00:26:11,508
and specs and they don't necessarily think long term or suss out those kind of dirty details.

406
00:26:12,028 --> 00:26:15,908
So that strategy goes overlooked. And in order to create that output,

407
00:26:16,108 --> 00:26:18,528
we need somebody who's going to help them.

408
00:26:19,270 --> 00:26:23,810
Realize that and what drew them there in the first place, right? We know this.

409
00:26:23,950 --> 00:26:30,190
The outcomes featured in case studies or testimonials is not coming from the product.

410
00:26:30,470 --> 00:26:35,490
It's coming from the strategy behind the tool in working with the partner.

411
00:26:35,730 --> 00:26:41,770
So again, that's that pulling together of what I vision is a true partnership.

412
00:26:42,370 --> 00:26:47,010
Yeah. It's funny, Steph, that you say that. One of the things that we have run

413
00:26:47,010 --> 00:26:52,790
into a number of times is, you know, our clients kind of evaluating these tools

414
00:26:52,790 --> 00:26:55,910
that are truly like they offer the Cadillac solutions.

415
00:26:56,150 --> 00:26:58,210
They offer everything under the sun.

416
00:26:58,730 --> 00:27:03,350
And, you know, then we point them in the direction of a solution that is probably

417
00:27:03,350 --> 00:27:06,330
a little better suited to where they are and their maturity,

418
00:27:06,430 --> 00:27:07,710
their needs, their priorities.

419
00:27:08,370 --> 00:27:11,910
And they'll start to say to us, but it does, you know, where you're guiding

420
00:27:11,910 --> 00:27:14,450
us doesn't offer us X, Y, and Z.

421
00:27:14,890 --> 00:27:19,370
And it's a really difficult conversation to then say, but why do you need X,

422
00:27:19,390 --> 00:27:21,650
Y, and Z? Like, you can barely figure out what A is.

423
00:27:21,790 --> 00:27:24,630
We're going all the way to the end of the alphabet. I don't think we need that.

424
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:29,470
So how do you, like, kind of think about enabling your partners to have that

425
00:27:29,470 --> 00:27:32,150
conversation? Or are you having that conversation with your partners?

426
00:27:32,390 --> 00:27:35,530
I would definitely have those conversations with my partners.

427
00:27:35,730 --> 00:27:38,190
A very successful sales rep said

428
00:27:38,190 --> 00:27:41,990
this to me, which I thought was a really brilliant way to think about it.

429
00:27:42,030 --> 00:27:44,970
Because, you know, I don't come from that world. I don't think in the same way

430
00:27:44,970 --> 00:27:46,990
of that sales kind of cycle.

431
00:27:47,130 --> 00:27:53,230
But he said, there's no 100% panacea perfect software solution out there.

432
00:27:53,410 --> 00:27:59,750
If you can get a customer to achieve 75 plus percent of what they're looking

433
00:27:59,750 --> 00:28:03,590
for, they should go with you as the choice, right?

434
00:28:03,730 --> 00:28:08,870
I mean, if you can get 75% of the way there, I think our consulting partners

435
00:28:08,870 --> 00:28:14,150
should know So how to use the product, how to leverage it as an element of the

436
00:28:14,150 --> 00:28:16,230
holistic strategy the client is looking for.

437
00:28:16,831 --> 00:28:22,411
The way I look at it is if elation is sold and it's too big for an organization,

438
00:28:22,791 --> 00:28:24,311
it's not going to be successful.

439
00:28:24,591 --> 00:28:28,251
Then it falls back to the software is bad. The platform is bad.

440
00:28:28,351 --> 00:28:32,211
Elation is terrible. Like, you know, they claim to do all these things. Right.

441
00:28:32,491 --> 00:28:37,111
So there does need to be honest conversations because not every customer is for us.

442
00:28:37,231 --> 00:28:41,071
Right. That's what makes the world go round. I mean, we have over 600,

443
00:28:41,111 --> 00:28:47,751
plenty of testimonials. It runs across the different verticals and sizes and global and local.

444
00:28:47,971 --> 00:28:51,851
But again, there's specific reasons that they'll purchase a leeshan.

445
00:28:52,031 --> 00:28:55,271
There's other specific reasons they'll purchase a competitor that they may deem

446
00:28:55,271 --> 00:28:59,771
is less expensive. And you can get into all those nuances, right?

447
00:28:59,911 --> 00:29:03,931
But at the end of the day, you want people to walk away saying they did the

448
00:29:03,931 --> 00:29:05,811
right thing. And maybe it's not right now.

449
00:29:06,071 --> 00:29:10,751
Maybe it's sometime in the future because that tends to be what happens, right? Right.

450
00:29:10,771 --> 00:29:15,551
And we see it often with some competitors where they're buying the Cadillac.

451
00:29:15,571 --> 00:29:18,311
It's not successful. It's fallen down.

452
00:29:18,931 --> 00:29:22,271
Everyone's got a bad taste in their mouth. And then you got to start all over

453
00:29:22,271 --> 00:29:28,151
again and recreate that excitement and that fervor of, look what I'm bringing to you now.

454
00:29:28,231 --> 00:29:30,511
This one, I promise, is going to be successful.

455
00:29:31,691 --> 00:29:37,411
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I kind of make the analogy of giving my six-year-old

456
00:29:37,411 --> 00:29:40,991
the keys to my car when she can't ride her bike without training wheels.

457
00:29:41,071 --> 00:29:42,071
Like, why would I do that?

458
00:29:43,251 --> 00:29:52,471
Right. I fundamentally believe that you want to sell value and deliver something

459
00:29:52,471 --> 00:29:54,291
that brings an end result.

460
00:29:54,651 --> 00:30:00,871
And when you do those things well, inevitably you will grow into something as

461
00:30:00,871 --> 00:30:03,371
opposed to these big bang.

462
00:30:03,591 --> 00:30:06,711
And And sometimes they happen and sometimes they make sense,

463
00:30:06,911 --> 00:30:13,231
but you want to understand what is going to get that customer to buy and to

464
00:30:13,231 --> 00:30:15,011
be successful with that purchase.

465
00:30:15,311 --> 00:30:21,671
I coach my partners to make good choices because, again, it's your reputation

466
00:30:21,671 --> 00:30:23,451
and our reputation together.

467
00:30:23,831 --> 00:30:30,211
I question when a partner is pushing an all-in solution for any part of an architecture,

468
00:30:30,611 --> 00:30:33,591
especially around data governance. I mean, I look at it and I think there's

469
00:30:33,591 --> 00:30:38,131
a lot of pieces to that data governance puzzle that are actually owned by different parties.

470
00:30:38,311 --> 00:30:41,951
So why would you use one tool to solve for all of it? So I immediately pushed

471
00:30:41,951 --> 00:30:44,211
back and I'm like, you don't have that process identified, right?

472
00:30:44,271 --> 00:30:48,631
So if you go into any company and you ask them like, hey, this has happened.

473
00:30:48,731 --> 00:30:53,371
I was helping a fast growing biopharma. They were looking for a data integration solution.

474
00:30:53,591 --> 00:30:57,251
At first it started off as, well, I just want to put data from all these systems

475
00:30:57,251 --> 00:31:00,671
into this one system. That's where the conversation started. Hearted.

476
00:31:01,275 --> 00:31:05,115
And it ended up being, no, actually, I want a solution that does all these point-to-point

477
00:31:05,115 --> 00:31:08,615
integrations for me across our entire enterprise suite.

478
00:31:08,975 --> 00:31:12,695
First was a data project, and then it became an enterprise IT core.

479
00:31:13,115 --> 00:31:17,955
How do I integrate all these platforms, et cetera? And it was like pulling trees,

480
00:31:18,115 --> 00:31:19,875
trying to get them back to the original vision.

481
00:31:20,035 --> 00:31:24,635
Because once they had that larger need of, well, if we're going to solve this

482
00:31:24,635 --> 00:31:28,315
problem, let's solve all 2,500 problems we have as a company.

483
00:31:28,455 --> 00:31:31,775
And we could do it by buying this one tool. you couldn't get them off of it.

484
00:31:31,795 --> 00:31:33,135
It didn't matter what I said to them.

485
00:31:33,255 --> 00:31:38,275
I consider myself a fairly good consultant and I could not get them off that conversation.

486
00:31:38,575 --> 00:31:41,695
I just could not get them pulled back because once they decided that was going

487
00:31:41,695 --> 00:31:42,955
to be the way that was going to be the way.

488
00:31:43,075 --> 00:31:45,735
And at that point, I literally stepped aside and I said, you know,

489
00:31:45,755 --> 00:31:48,815
if you guys are going to do this, I'm sorry, but we can't help you.

490
00:31:48,895 --> 00:31:50,555
I literally said, we can't help

491
00:31:50,555 --> 00:31:54,515
you because that is like, I know what our success areas are. It's data.

492
00:31:54,895 --> 00:31:58,315
I'm not here to solve your enterprise systems, integration issues.

493
00:31:58,315 --> 00:32:00,535
And I literally was just like, we can't help you with that.

494
00:32:00,615 --> 00:32:03,895
So if that's now the vision of what you're going to go do, you're going to have

495
00:32:03,895 --> 00:32:06,375
to go do it without us. And we exited that conversation.

496
00:32:06,635 --> 00:32:09,435
But I don't think a lot of companies do that. They just sit there and they're

497
00:32:09,435 --> 00:32:13,515
like, well, yeah, we're going to start here. And then the box gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

498
00:32:14,015 --> 00:32:18,935
And they don't tell their client either, I'm out because that's not the box I'm used to working in.

499
00:32:19,355 --> 00:32:22,135
They're not honest about that. They just see the revenue growing.

500
00:32:22,135 --> 00:32:25,775
Or they just want an answer.

501
00:32:25,935 --> 00:32:28,975
So they'll push the client to make a decision with the bigger box.

502
00:32:29,515 --> 00:32:32,435
I think people are still afraid to say no, Sandy.

503
00:32:32,655 --> 00:32:39,255
I think that word as a vendor, so to speak, becomes this scary thing to say,

504
00:32:39,395 --> 00:32:41,475
what are they going to think if I back away?

505
00:32:41,835 --> 00:32:46,675
I think when I was a salesperson and we'd get a blind RFP and you'd have to

506
00:32:46,675 --> 00:32:51,475
go through it, I'd check kind of the timestamp and see if somebody else wrote the RFP.

507
00:32:51,495 --> 00:32:53,555
There were tons of things that you would go through.

508
00:32:53,895 --> 00:32:59,055
And depending on what the ask was, do we have bench people who could respond to it?

509
00:32:59,115 --> 00:33:02,495
Did it make sense to respond to it for an exercise in, you know,

510
00:33:02,495 --> 00:33:04,635
something we could reuse as an asset later?

511
00:33:04,895 --> 00:33:09,775
Or some cases, writing respectful, thanks, but no thanks, because you're missing,

512
00:33:09,795 --> 00:33:14,295
you know, all these key pieces of information, which lead me to believe that

513
00:33:14,295 --> 00:33:19,835
this is not necessarily a legitimate opportunity for us. And we have to spend our time wisely.

514
00:33:20,015 --> 00:33:25,415
And the hope is always that people have a respect for your ability to try to

515
00:33:25,415 --> 00:33:29,955
have an honest conversation, because that's the other thing in this partner

516
00:33:29,955 --> 00:33:34,135
world is I'm a firm believer in transparency and honesty.

517
00:33:34,415 --> 00:33:37,935
It may not be the answer I'm looking to hear or the answer I'm looking to share

518
00:33:37,935 --> 00:33:42,915
with you, but I think it just cements the fact that I want to be seen as a trusted

519
00:33:42,915 --> 00:33:47,955
resource and doing what I say I'm going to do and having that.

520
00:33:48,655 --> 00:33:53,095
Yeah. I remember the first time I heard a leader actually say no to an RFP.

521
00:33:53,115 --> 00:33:54,775
I'm like, but why would you do that?

522
00:33:54,875 --> 00:33:58,735
After years of experience, you see that if you go after the wrong opportunity,

523
00:33:59,035 --> 00:34:01,595
all of those things, stuff that you were talking about, the reputation,

524
00:34:02,015 --> 00:34:06,135
the satisfaction, all of that just goes out the window.

525
00:34:06,735 --> 00:34:11,215
And so, I mean, no is a legitimate answer to give to somebody. Yeah.

526
00:34:11,315 --> 00:34:16,755
I don't like responding to RFPs if you can't speak to the customer client.

527
00:34:16,755 --> 00:34:20,595
Client, I have challenges with that.

528
00:34:20,695 --> 00:34:22,995
Those are ones I don't like responding to.

529
00:34:23,135 --> 00:34:29,355
I think that I also find that, and I've seen many RFPs where they don't know

530
00:34:29,355 --> 00:34:32,315
what they're doing and they just play the RFP horrible.

531
00:34:32,935 --> 00:34:38,015
We had an RFP response that ended up being one of our largest wins ever at the

532
00:34:38,015 --> 00:34:40,075
firm that was poorly written.

533
00:34:40,095 --> 00:34:44,835
When we first got that RFP, I remember thinking to myself, are they looking for software?

534
00:34:45,055 --> 00:34:48,455
This is written like they're looking for software, not consulting services.

535
00:34:48,895 --> 00:34:53,255
I don't understand this. And we therefore decided we're just going to ask a

536
00:34:53,255 --> 00:34:55,535
bunch of questions because we had the opportunity to speak to them on the phone.

537
00:34:55,735 --> 00:34:58,815
So we were like, well, let's just ask them because the feeling was maybe they

538
00:34:58,815 --> 00:34:59,875
don't know what they're asking for.

539
00:35:00,015 --> 00:35:03,835
And we were able to, through the conversation, understand that they had no idea

540
00:35:03,835 --> 00:35:06,675
what they were doing. This was the first time they were going down this path.

541
00:35:06,955 --> 00:35:09,475
They actually didn't have a team that understood the space.

542
00:35:09,775 --> 00:35:12,815
So to us, it was a perfect opportunity because we're like, wow,

543
00:35:12,815 --> 00:35:16,415
wow, we can shape their people, their process, and their technology decisions.

544
00:35:16,935 --> 00:35:21,595
So this is exactly where we want to be with them. And we want it because of

545
00:35:21,595 --> 00:35:26,935
that insight of really thinking through, who are you? Why are you asking these types of questions?

546
00:35:27,115 --> 00:35:29,315
What are you really trying to achieve at the end of the day?

547
00:35:29,415 --> 00:35:32,355
It led us to being able to uncover the true opportunity.

548
00:35:32,915 --> 00:35:36,575
But I, you know, so I'll always start with a little bit of maybe they don't

549
00:35:36,575 --> 00:35:40,255
know what they're doing. Let's have a conversation first and see if we can get to the bottom of it.

550
00:35:40,335 --> 00:35:42,575
But if I don't have clarity after that conversation.

551
00:35:42,755 --> 00:35:44,815
I'm very comfortable saying no. Right.

552
00:35:45,095 --> 00:35:49,635
But you probably gave them insight into your ability and how you strategically

553
00:35:49,635 --> 00:35:52,495
think about things as you're guiding and coaching them.

554
00:35:52,575 --> 00:35:55,255
And then they're in a better position for the future as well.

555
00:35:55,455 --> 00:36:00,875
Right. I'm consistently still amazed at how many customers don't really know

556
00:36:00,875 --> 00:36:02,295
how to even buy software.

557
00:36:02,515 --> 00:36:05,795
They don't know the process. They don't know all the levers that need to be

558
00:36:05,795 --> 00:36:09,075
pulled. They don't necessarily always know the right questions to ask.

559
00:36:09,175 --> 00:36:15,295
Again, the benefits of having an independent partner to help guide them through those pieces.

560
00:36:15,775 --> 00:36:19,535
Or they're lazy and they go to a website that says, here's all the things that

561
00:36:19,535 --> 00:36:21,875
you need to ask about software vendors.

562
00:36:22,055 --> 00:36:24,855
And you grab that, they make that the RFP, and then you get it.

563
00:36:24,955 --> 00:36:27,615
Like, did they download this from a competitor website?

564
00:36:28,035 --> 00:36:31,875
Like, get it. They already decided and they actually have it. They're just lazy.

565
00:36:32,095 --> 00:36:35,875
And probably between the three of us, we've probably seen every situation under

566
00:36:35,875 --> 00:36:38,075
the sun. right, in the course of our careers?

567
00:36:38,315 --> 00:36:41,775
I'm sure we have. I think one of the things that always surprises me,

568
00:36:42,235 --> 00:36:45,155
you know, when our clients are surprised, is around timing.

569
00:36:45,765 --> 00:36:49,225
And they don't really have a great sense of how long it's really going to take

570
00:36:49,225 --> 00:36:54,605
to go from asking the questions to the time that you actually hit go and start implementation.

571
00:36:54,945 --> 00:36:58,985
There's so much that needs to happen in between. And without a partner to guide

572
00:36:58,985 --> 00:37:03,245
you and just working with those various vendors, I think it just becomes a very

573
00:37:03,245 --> 00:37:04,805
tricky situation to navigate.

574
00:37:05,165 --> 00:37:09,525
A lot of open questions of why is this taking so long? What do I need to be

575
00:37:09,525 --> 00:37:11,485
thinking of? Just don't get answered.

576
00:37:11,725 --> 00:37:14,865
Like you're just going transactionally from one vendor to the other.

577
00:37:14,865 --> 00:37:18,505
Or they don't even know how to navigate their own orgs. Oh, wait,

578
00:37:18,625 --> 00:37:22,305
now procurement wants me to get this clearance to security in the CISOs suite.

579
00:37:22,465 --> 00:37:26,405
Now I need to go get funding from three other parts of the organization.

580
00:37:26,725 --> 00:37:28,825
Now I need to go get buy-in for timelines.

581
00:37:29,385 --> 00:37:35,385
What advice do you have for either budding partner leads at software companies

582
00:37:35,385 --> 00:37:39,725
or consulting firms looking to get better at their partnerships?

583
00:37:39,725 --> 00:37:44,245
I think it's find a model that, you know, you admire, right?

584
00:37:44,365 --> 00:37:50,165
Whether it's a technology that you admire or a partner program you admire and

585
00:37:50,165 --> 00:37:52,165
figure out what's making that work.

586
00:37:52,285 --> 00:37:57,645
And there's always going to be nuances because again, some of it's back to the resources that you,

587
00:37:58,134 --> 00:38:03,034
How much marketing dollars do you have, right? How do you want to go to market together, right?

588
00:38:03,214 --> 00:38:08,234
And now we did these roundtables, which I loved the topic of that, right?

589
00:38:08,334 --> 00:38:13,254
It's bringing customers together. It's almost like a mini customer gathering

590
00:38:13,254 --> 00:38:19,034
that allows for dialogue that's open for lessons learned, challenges across the board.

591
00:38:19,094 --> 00:38:23,794
And, you know, again, expanding their own network within other professionals,

592
00:38:24,074 --> 00:38:27,694
right, that they can use as common ground.

593
00:38:27,694 --> 00:38:33,794
We have an ongoing pursuit right now that a customer of ours who speaks for

594
00:38:33,794 --> 00:38:38,214
us regularly met somebody at a CDO show in D.C.

595
00:38:38,274 --> 00:38:40,894
In December, and they developed a relationship.

596
00:38:41,254 --> 00:38:44,714
And she's leaning on him as she's going through her data catalog journey.

597
00:38:45,094 --> 00:38:47,294
Right, and working with Alation.

598
00:38:47,394 --> 00:38:50,434
And that wouldn't have happened if, you know, people didn't come together.

599
00:38:50,434 --> 00:38:55,894
So when I think about those things, it's trying to be creative and not just

600
00:38:55,894 --> 00:38:58,414
leaning on big industry and personal events,

601
00:38:58,634 --> 00:39:03,294
but finding ways to put out content that resonates with people,

602
00:39:03,374 --> 00:39:07,214
that doesn't make them feel skittish about asking questions, right?

603
00:39:07,334 --> 00:39:13,774
And being able to have resources to tap into. to. I think attention spans have gotten shorter.

604
00:39:13,994 --> 00:39:19,234
And so like doing big fat webinars for an hour and taking that time out of people's

605
00:39:19,234 --> 00:39:24,194
days, it probably still happens and I'm sure they can still be successful.

606
00:39:24,434 --> 00:39:29,514
But I think about why is YouTube and TikTok so palatable and popular? You know why?

607
00:39:29,814 --> 00:39:34,254
Because people can consume content that's relevant to them in a very short period of time.

608
00:39:34,394 --> 00:39:38,194
And then if they want to go delve deeper, they may be able to tap into other

609
00:39:38,194 --> 00:39:39,454
things that go from there.

610
00:39:39,554 --> 00:39:45,394
And that's when I think about budding partners, it's like finding ways to meet

611
00:39:45,394 --> 00:39:46,914
people where they are right now.

612
00:39:47,074 --> 00:39:52,054
Yeah, I agree with that. I feel that no one's gonna sign up for one hour webinar

613
00:39:52,054 --> 00:39:54,394
these days. Right. The intent is there.

614
00:39:55,038 --> 00:39:58,538
The intent is there, I'm sure. I see them come across and I'm like,

615
00:39:58,558 --> 00:39:59,598
oh, that looks interesting.

616
00:39:59,698 --> 00:40:02,278
And I get all excited about it. Before I hit that register button,

617
00:40:02,358 --> 00:40:04,938
I think to myself, am I really going to show up to this? Probably not.

618
00:40:04,958 --> 00:40:07,458
Don't register because I don't have time.

619
00:40:07,538 --> 00:40:12,518
Because in this virtual world, our calendars are packed from the moment you

620
00:40:12,518 --> 00:40:16,978
wake up to the moment you're logging off at the end of the day, it's going to be packed.

621
00:40:17,118 --> 00:40:21,438
And any moment you don't have a meeting, you're probably finishing a document

622
00:40:21,438 --> 00:40:26,258
or doing something or getting back to somebody via email or Slack or Teams or whatever it may be.

623
00:40:26,518 --> 00:40:30,058
So yeah, time is precious these days. It's a different world.

624
00:40:30,118 --> 00:40:31,178
We're not sitting at a desk.

625
00:40:31,458 --> 00:40:37,198
We're actually way more, I feel like we're way more productive than we used to be as a society.

626
00:40:37,378 --> 00:40:39,618
And you never shut it off. I mean, that's the reality.

627
00:40:39,838 --> 00:40:43,798
It's very difficult to shut off. The only way to do that is like go somewhere

628
00:40:43,798 --> 00:40:45,458
where you just don't have access, right?

629
00:40:45,758 --> 00:40:49,078
Yeah. I mean, that was me in Yellowstone last week.

630
00:40:49,158 --> 00:40:54,498
There was no cell service. So I knew very little of what was going on back in

631
00:40:54,498 --> 00:40:56,838
the office until basically I got back.

632
00:40:57,058 --> 00:40:59,358
You know what? My mind was clear. Yeah.

633
00:40:59,758 --> 00:41:03,738
I'm going away for a bit. And I am literally, I have to delete the apps off

634
00:41:03,738 --> 00:41:05,078
my phone, which is my plan.

635
00:41:05,138 --> 00:41:08,478
I'm deleting all the work related apps and others off my phone.

636
00:41:08,618 --> 00:41:13,398
And I'm shutting off my computer and I'm not opening, I'm hiding it from like

637
00:41:13,398 --> 00:41:15,998
sight. So I know it's gone and just gone.

638
00:41:16,258 --> 00:41:20,018
Who am I going to drive crazy while you're gone? Who am I driving crazy while you're gone?

639
00:41:20,598 --> 00:41:23,138
I'm still here. I don't have six weeks to take off.

640
00:41:24,518 --> 00:41:26,338
Probably due for a lunch, aren't

641
00:41:26,338 --> 00:41:29,878
we? That's trouble. I just have like one final like partner question.

642
00:41:30,598 --> 00:41:34,758
So, you know, one of the things that as we were building up our capabilities

643
00:41:34,758 --> 00:41:40,778
here at Cervelo that I was really insistent on with our team was to ensure that

644
00:41:40,778 --> 00:41:43,038
we were getting people certified, enabled.

645
00:41:43,378 --> 00:41:46,978
We're really driving commitment on our end.

646
00:41:47,404 --> 00:41:51,404
To say that we're spending the time, we're absorbing everything that elation

647
00:41:51,404 --> 00:41:55,084
can teach us in order to be successful when we go out to the market,

648
00:41:55,144 --> 00:41:59,784
when we start working with clients, implementing, helping with change management, whatever have you.

649
00:42:00,064 --> 00:42:04,364
So that was one of the strategies that I employed. But are there other strategies,

650
00:42:04,464 --> 00:42:08,264
either from the partner side or from the consulting side, that you would say

651
00:42:08,264 --> 00:42:12,804
are really key to ensuring a successful and healthy partnership?

652
00:42:12,804 --> 00:42:19,684
I think that one thing that is very undervalued is field-to-field alignment

653
00:42:19,684 --> 00:42:21,604
and relationship development.

654
00:42:21,824 --> 00:42:28,684
Knowing full well that sales executives or account managers in consulting firms

655
00:42:28,684 --> 00:42:34,764
typically have a book or a bag of things that they're responsible for helping

656
00:42:34,764 --> 00:42:38,064
customers think about and ultimately, quote unquote, sell.

657
00:42:38,064 --> 00:42:43,624
We're not looking for deep knowledge on elation, but the opportunities to whet

658
00:42:43,624 --> 00:42:47,884
the appetite of those prospects in those conversations to tee that up.

659
00:42:47,984 --> 00:42:51,864
And a lot of that comes from rep to rep alignment, right? Is do we like the

660
00:42:51,864 --> 00:42:53,444
same thing? Do we like each other?

661
00:42:53,584 --> 00:42:57,204
Are we the same people? Do we have the same values? Do we sell in the same way?

662
00:42:57,304 --> 00:43:02,504
You know, some people will sell to anybody and drop it all in and not look back.

663
00:43:02,664 --> 00:43:04,404
Others have real conscience.

664
00:43:04,724 --> 00:43:08,984
You're trusting me. I want to to deliver for you. So I think field to field

665
00:43:08,984 --> 00:43:12,204
alignment can be beneficial in building those relationships.

666
00:43:12,344 --> 00:43:16,304
And again, allows for you to potentially speak the same language and show up

667
00:43:16,304 --> 00:43:21,164
together, which again, creates a different experience when it comes to selling a product.

668
00:43:21,484 --> 00:43:24,584
So I think that's certainly one thing, your commitment, you know,

669
00:43:24,584 --> 00:43:26,744
definitely demonstrates those things.

670
00:43:26,904 --> 00:43:31,244
And I think then again, executing, you know, and finding an opportunity or two

671
00:43:31,244 --> 00:43:35,364
that you can then turn into that case study that goes back to our partner had

672
00:43:35,364 --> 00:43:36,924
the strategy and they're seeing it through.

673
00:43:37,164 --> 00:43:41,184
You know, those are things that resonate internally that give you credibility

674
00:43:41,184 --> 00:43:43,524
and build it from there. That's great advice.

675
00:43:43,804 --> 00:43:47,984
Well, again, Stephanie, thank you so much for spending some time with us to

676
00:43:47,984 --> 00:43:48,784
have this conversation.

677
00:43:49,024 --> 00:43:54,584
I love hearing our partner's perspective on what is critical for both of us

678
00:43:54,584 --> 00:43:57,424
to be successful, and that is a joint partnership for our clients.

679
00:43:57,604 --> 00:44:01,744
The reality of the space space is that people move around.

680
00:44:01,884 --> 00:44:06,964
And as you said, people buy from people. And I feel that same way in terms of who you partner with.

681
00:44:07,064 --> 00:44:11,684
I always find that I'm going to have a better relationship with a software company

682
00:44:11,684 --> 00:44:15,944
when the people they throw in front of me are easy to work with and understand

683
00:44:15,944 --> 00:44:19,664
kind of our charge and what we're trying to achieve as a business as well.

684
00:44:19,784 --> 00:44:24,044
So it's been fabulous working with you. And again, great insights.

685
00:44:24,064 --> 00:44:25,124
And thank you for the chat.

686
00:44:25,224 --> 00:44:28,684
Back at you. And thank you for having me as your guest today. This was really fun.

687
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:36,840
Music.